Please comment on the following article in relation to our reading of "Initiation." What do initiation rites reveal about human nature? What are your thoughts/ reactions to this article? Feel refer to refer to the short story as well.
The quest to stamp out hazing Initiation rites have deep roots in human history, psychology By STEVE URBON, Standard-Times senior correspondent
http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/09-06/09-03-06/02topstories.htm
Hazing Defined:
“Hazing” refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group (or to maintain full status in a group) that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate. In years past, hazing practices were typically considered harmless pranks or comical antics associated with young men in college fraternities.
Today we know that hazing extends far beyond college fraternities and is experienced by boys/men and girls/women in school groups, university organizations, athletic teams, the military, and other social and professional organizations. Hazing is a complex social problem that is shaped by power dynamics operating in a group and/or organization and within a particular cultural context.
Hazing activities are generally considered to be: physically abusive, hazardous, and/or sexually violating. The specific behaviors or activities within these categories vary widely among participants, groups and settings. While alcohol use is common in many types of hazing, other examples of typical hazing practices include: personal servitude; sleep deprivation and restrictions on personal hygiene; yelling, swearing and insulting new members/rookies; being forced to wear embarrassing or humiliating attire in public; consumption of vile substances or smearing of such on one's skin; brandings; physical beatings; binge drinking and drinking games; sexual simulation and sexual assault. (StopHazing.org)
"The Quest to Stamp Out Hazing"
http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/09-06/09-03-06/02topstories.htm
I believe that initiations should be banned from all schools. Students should not have to go through these bad expiriences just to be accepted into a group.The should be accepted into a group for who they are. My thought about the artilce are that it is very interesting to hear about human nature. Most people will go to the extreme just to look cool, or be liked by their piers.
ReplyDeleteLindsey Period 8
I found the article to be very interesting and measured it up to the Story initiation well. When it comes down to it the main reason Millicent wanted to join the Sorority was to become a part of a social hierarchy. This reason would be driven strictly by human nature, which drives people to further themselves socially. I feel society has already taken steps to prevent hazing in certain areas of the Globe, an example from the article is Massachusetts declaring Hazing to be an illegal act. This will help situations like in the story to never occur in the first place, because most of the school staff knew when an initiation was taking place. The rest of the responsibility to stop hazing is in the hands of people directly involved with it. If no one would play along with being hazed the members of the Sorority/whatever would have to find a new way to induct members that doesn’t include hazing.
ReplyDelete~Dan A. Period 1
I think that initiations shouldnt be allowed. They make people do stupid and degrading things just to be in a speical group. People will do almost anything to be in a cool group of people even if it makes them look stupid.
ReplyDeleteAnthony Period 8
i don't think that initions should be allowed in schools, because it forces students to do stuff that made other students look stupid and funny infront of others.Most people do such things just to look cool, or want to be popular infornt of others.
ReplyDeleteKriti, Period 7
i do this later
ReplyDeleteHazing seems as if it was a big problem years ago but now I think that it is harder to find. I don't hear about any hazing going around in our school but I did hear about it in colleges and universities. If a school or organazation has a problem with hazing, then they should try the educational programs that Dartmouth tryed. According to Mr. Wetzel, it seems that the education program has worked. It's a good thing that people are trying to eliminate hazing because it has been around since the caveman times. It seems that these days, any negetive thing that is going around, there are people that are there to help you. I don't think that kids who do hazing should go to jail because young people don't know any better.
ReplyDeleteMichael Period 8
I think these groups are stupid because they just put people in separate groups because they think it's cool. Also people in these groups get made fun of because they are a part of them so it takes the whole point out of being in them
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, initiatons should not be allowed in schools. So many people try to get into the groups, and they get hurt or treated poorly. People shouldn't have to do things that they don't want to, just to get into some group/clique. I think that it would be so much better, if there were not initations in schools, and everyone could be accepted for who they are.
ReplyDeleteMelissa- period 7
In my opinion, I feel that hazing and initiations have a negative affect on a group or organization’s outlook. If an organization feels that its new members have to undergo physical and/or emotional harm and humiliation, than to me, it doesn’t seem like a reputable group. I do agree that hazing may be simply a part of human nature because of its origin being from since cavemen times. I feel that it is more on the basis of power versus it being more on the basis of acceptance and having the group feel as a whole. I disagree with Dr. Mary Zahm in saying “if you want your people to be really loyal, you subject them to severe initiation.” If I were being subjected to hazing, it would not make me feel more loyal to the group at all. Some people may have different opinions on the topic seeing that many college students are known to join fraternities and sororities that undergo hazing. I would never join an organization that would put me through harm in order to join. I think that to a certain extent, it would be all right. There is, however, no fine line when it comes to a little play with the “new guys” then to taking them to the point of harm and humiliation.
ReplyDeleteAlexa, Period 7
Skyler Per.8
ReplyDeletei think that hazing is stupid, degrading and in some cases dangerous. it should be illegal for people to be put through hazing or an initiation like the one in the story. i think that things like this also shut people out from making different friednds, how can somebody be your friend when they are putting you through such terrible things.
This topic can bring up much debate and storng opinions; but hte bottom line is that its not necessary. Its a good thought to try to ban it; but when you think about it, it not only happens in the school setting, but it can happen anywhere a person is trying to get into a group of people. Im not sure how relavent this is, but i know in our schools on some sport teams the freshman have to clean up before and after games, get water /first aid kits, also dress up the craziest and most embarassing on team dress up days.
ReplyDeleteTHe upperclassman answer that they once had to do this too , they have earned there position on the team.. or however you want to word it. When you think about it; if you need to change yourself to be a part of something, why put all the effort in for a " title " you wont even have for mor ehten 4 years.
This topic can bring up much debate and storng opinions; but hte bottom line is that its not necessary. Its a good thought to try to ban it; but when you think about it, it not only happens in the school setting, but it can happen anywhere a person is trying to get into a group of people. Im not sure how relavent this is, but i know in our schools on some sport teams the freshman have to clean up before and after games, get water /first aid kits, also dress up the craziest and most embarassing on team dress up days.
ReplyDeleteTHe upperclassman answer that they once had to do this too , they have earned there position on the team.. or however you want to word it. When you think about it; if you need to change yourself to be a part of something, why put all the effort in for a " title " you wont even have for mor ehten 4 years.
I think that any sort of "club" that uses hazing and initiations should be banned. Teens always think that getting into an elite club makes you "cooler" but the things that teens have to do to get into the clubs is not worth it. Of course hazing is bad, but it's the kids’ decision when enough is enough, they can stop at any point, just like Millicent did. I’m not saying hazing or initiations are good, but teenagers can make their own choice as to when to keep going or when things get way too out of hand. I think it’s all just a waste of time.
ReplyDeleteMolly, Period 7
The article provided gave us (the readers) a clear definition of hazing and some examples of it in modern society. As stated in the article, people feel hazing is alright for a number of reasons. For example, some people think it is necessary in order to express one's authority over another individual or group of individuals. In return, the people that are hazed often -- sometimes daily -- do not reject or report hazing, in most cases. I think this is a major flaw in the human mind, to force oneself to accept something for a greater cause -- which, in the end, may not be so great. Hazing is performed in many ways via pranks, initiations for clubs, sports teams, etc., but there is only one way that it can be described: cruel and unusual (yes, that was a reference to the "death penalty saying"). Overall, it is not worth it to put yourself under these kinds of pressure -- just because everyone else is joining a certain club, doesn't mean it is necessarily cool, and it is certainly not cool to cause physical or emotional harm to oneself in order to join. Thankfully, many schools have set up programs against hazing and hopefully this will prevent any further hazing from happening in the near future.
ReplyDeleteCorey W, Period 7
Hazing happens everywhere even if you don’t know it or realize it. Making new members of a team or an organization do certain things, that the former members don’t have to do could be considered hazing, even if the new members agree to do it. I think hazing is big problem in the U.S. Clubs, teams, and groups all over the world are doing it. I think they do it because they had it done to them when they joined, so now that they’re older, they feel the need to do it themselves. I agree with Dr. Mary Sahm for saying that, "A lot of it, I think, is just power over other people. Maybe it's a demonstration of hypermasculinity or whatever.” I believe that when students do get caught with hazing others, adults should look into the crime more. Maybe the members agreed to do it, or maybe they didn’t realize it was hazing and there wasn’t really a need for the punishment. Hazing is a crime if it is gone to far, but some things considered “hazing” really don’t need to be at all.
ReplyDeleteAlly, Period 7
I feel that hazing mostly targets insecure and immature kids who feel that they will be accepted after being humiliated and surviving it, its like, after this everything will be okay, i'll be older and i'll get to humiliate someone else. It's really stupid and shouldn't be allowed in school activities, if teachers know it's going on, they should do something to stop it and punish those involved.
ReplyDeleteI feel like hazing happens everywhere. not just for soritities or freternities in colleges. Hazing happens in our own school if someione does something then everyone laughs. I think the teachers and staff shold really recognize this. The students that are getting haze are usually not as popular or lonely. So, that already is enough for them.
ReplyDeleteAs for the hazing in sororities/fraternities, well that's another thing. I mean, the person can choose if they want to join or not. It's not like they are forced to. For example, Millicent went through all that hazing but in the end, she realized it was not worth it. That kind of hazing is a choice. Kids now a days are more focused on being popular than focusing on other things or realzing who your true friends are. That kind of hazing is a decision but the other kind, well, I hope we can soon put an end to that..
Kiana, period 5
I think that hazing is potentially dangerous and degrading, not only for the person who the hazing is being done to, but also the people doing the hazing. It’s dangerous and degrading for the person who it is all happening to because some of the things that they are forced to do/are done to them can seriously hurt them, and the whole point of it is usually to embarrass them, so it is obviously degrading. But it is also dangerous and degrading for the ones who are doing the hazing. They could get caught, and since hazing is illegal in most states, they could end up going to prison. It’s also degrading for them because, what kind of person would come up with such a horrible thing like smearing “paint, urine, feces and animal entrails” on people younger than them? They should be embarrassed for coming up with such an idea. Also, I think it just shows how dumb some of these people who are doing the hazing can be when they post videos of it online. They obviously know that people are going to see it; why don’t they realize that even people who shouldn’t see it, like cops, will see it, and that they will get in trouble for it? There’s really no other word to describe hazing other than stupid.
ReplyDeletelauren, p 1
I think that hazing should be banned. First of all, I don't think it's good to seperate people into groups. Like in the story "Initiation," Tracy got banned just because of her socks and her bag. If being accepted into a group means not being different, then it should be banned.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I don't think hazing is such a big idea. If people are stupid enough to go through humiliation just to fit in, then that's to bad for them. Maybe they'll learn something from it. But if hazing gets to the point of being hazardous, I think it should be banned.
Anja, Period 5
I think that hazing and initiations happen everywhere and in everything. Even if it does not been being physical abused but it could also just be like a teasing thing. For an example when freshman join a sport the upperclassmen give them rough time. I think that it is not a problem because people continue to join the groups, with out questioning hazing. Even if they get rid of it I think that it will defiantly show up again, if not more.
ReplyDeleteJessica per 7
I think that hazing is ridiculous. People shouldn't put other people through all of that humiliation just to be in a certain club or accepted by certain people. If someone told me to do all embarassing things to be accepted then I would say goodbye because I like people who accept me for who I am and not because I obey their orders. I am sure that hazing is not allowed in our school and that's probably why I don't see situations like the story "Initiation" at BHS. I would want to become apart of a group/sorority that didn't involve hazing. Unfortunetly, at most college sororities there is hazing.
ReplyDeleteI don't think hazing is right but I accept that it happens and probably will continue to happen, I’m sure most people would agree with that. Hazing has to do with the fact that a person can enter an elite group and to be assured of acceptance. For all that this group does for you the least a person could do is pay their dues and hazing does that. Most hazing occurrences do in fact go to the extremes and people are physically and emotionally hurt due to hazing but that is because of control of power. Like Lord of the Flies, power is abused and people will do anything for it or to be accepted. Hazing is unavoidable sometimes but a lot of it can be prevented. There should be consequences for hazing and it should be stopped. But like the article says, people will become willing captives.
ReplyDelete-Madeline Period 7
Hazing can be a problem, but I think it should be left well enough alone. Hazing, as specified several times in the article, has been going on since prehistory and is deeply embedded into one's human nature, and who are we to go against human nature? Elite clubs are elite because they are hard to get into. Something that makes the clubs hard to get into are the difficult initiations that could be considered hazing. The phrase "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" applies very nicely to this. If you can't take the hazing that you conciously and willingly agreed to in joining the group, you shouldn't complain that it ends up being hazing. It's not the police's or the school's problem to take care of somethingl ike that, it's your own responsibility to stand up to what you don't want to do.
ReplyDeleteI feel that hazing should be banned from happening in schools. Even if it is tradition, we need to start a new one. Once hazing stops, that will become the new tradition and students will not have to suffer through the terrible things that come with hazing just to be accepted into a certian group. In the story, "The Initiation", Millicent wanted to be in the sorority so badly that she would have done anything to get in, including suffering through their hazing.
ReplyDeleteI believe that hazing if probably one of the hardest situations to deal with. It is pointless for people to degrade themselves just for the right of getting into a club. I don't think that anybody should subject themselves to something that can make them look so embarassed. Hazing is also a very dangerous this. There was a video that I saw about a year ago that was actual footage of hazing in Chesire. The girls were blindfolded so they could be beaten and smeared with dog feces. I don't know how anybody could want to do that to become a part of an "exclusive" club. If anybody asked me to do that, there would be no chance at all of that happening. I would never allow myself to become anybody's slave or punching bag.
ReplyDeleteWhat do initiation rites reveal about human nature? What are your thoughts/ reactions to this article? Feel refer to refer to the short story as well.
ReplyDeleteInitiations reveal that haz
Sorry about the other comment, my computer messed up.
ReplyDeleteInitiations reveal that hazing brings together people who want to be of a certain group, and that people would do basically anything to get in. In the article, this was stated: "They were smeared in paint, urine, feces and animal entrails by upperclassmen." To me, that is ridiculous. I personally wouldn't undergo such a treatment to join some club/group but to each their own, I suppose. I also agree that hazing should be illegal and no one should have to go through such a treatment. But if the person knew the mist of the treatment they would undergo and went through it in secret, they are really unintelligent. Why would you degrade yourself to such a level? In all, hazing shows that in human nature, some people would go through anything just to be "accepted" into the group.
I definitely think that hazing and the whole initiation is beyond terrible. I have read books and watched television shows that really describe it well how initiations can really hurt the person mentally and physically. One quote that I agree with said, “A lot of it, I think, is just power over other people." To me that statement is so true. Upperclassmen in college have so much power over the underclassmen. So when an upperclassman tells the underclassmen to jump they will say how high? In my eyes what they are doing is just wrong, but it’s human nature. Everyone wants to be liked and everyone wants to be in the "cool" group no matter the costs. In my opinion if a group wants you to do all those terrible things to get in it's definitely not worth leaving your true friends for. In the movie Sydney White she was trying to get into a sorority. The "leaders", made her leave this boy who didn't have a lot of friends, in the middle of dinner. I think hurting someone else to get yourself in a higher rank is just awful. I know if I was put in that position, I would definitely leave right away no matter how much I wanted it.
ReplyDeleteEverywhere around the world, hazing has once in the past occurred, or is still occuring. I agree when many other people that hazing one situation that is diffuclt to be dealt with. From my view, as much as you try to stop it, it won't work. A lot of hazing is created by being "cool." "This happens, Dr. Zahm said, because people subjected to hazing by a group to which they want to belong have a problem." Yes, most teenagers, are trying to get into the cool groups, or try to be popular. Why try being someone you're not? "When they see themselves suffering, they ask, 'Why am I doing this?' They get into the group, but realize that they are being treated terribly. And they wish they weren't in the position they wished they were in, which would be " with the cool people." "...hazing, as deeply rooted in the culture as it might be for everyone from sorority sisters." I saw a movie just this past week called Sydney White. Sydney was a attending a sorority college. She is a very nice girl, unlike the upperclassmen that were in charge of sorority. I remember one of the girls saying, "this is not like hazing...." The upperclassmen made the girls work like slaves. Those three girls, though they were top notch, thinking they own all the people on campus. This did not seem right to me, other people don't have the right to take over other people's lives. Yes, hazing is human nature, but that doesn't mean everyone has to participate in it. In my view, if people think that once the get into being a cool person, they are going to suffer, and hate it. People should be with people that don't make them suffer.
ReplyDeleteI think that hazing should be banned. I don't think that people should even be separated into different groups. I find it stupid that people would humiliate others just to join a group. People should like you for who you are, you shouldn't have to be someone your not. Hazing it is a very difficult situation to deal with. "Junior class members were herded to a field, where they were smeared in paint, urine, feces and animal entrails by upperclassmen." I find that absolutly rediculous, why would people do that? People think that they are cool when they humiliate others but the truth is they arn't cool they are just hurting people and it is wrong. Hazing is very dangerous but is a part of human nature and we can't really do much about that.
ReplyDeleteHeather, period 1
This article compares to the short story initiation very well. I think that hazing is very wrong but it is also a very hard thing to stop. Schools can control it to a certain amount but they can't control what happens outside of school. I agree with some comments on how its a degrading and terrible thing to go through but some people actually want to get into a group so bad they will do anything. When a kid gets this attitude it will most likely end up with someone doing something stupid. Most of the times it is a group of people doing it just to get a good laugh at someone and it can be quite embarrassing at times. I know i have seen "hazing" to a certain amount but nothing real bad where someone could have gotten killed or seriously injured. I have hear of a couple that could kill someone or injure someone else. I think overall Hazing should be banned
ReplyDeleteAccording to initiations, hazing brings together a group of people. Although this idea makes sense, it is very unethical. When a group of people experience the same things, it makes them seem like a close nit group because they've all done it before. What makes hazing so unethical is that the things these people undergo is basically a form of torture.
ReplyDeleteHazing is necessary for initiations because it expresses authority over others. People don't want to stop hazing because they'll think, "well if I went through it, you should too." People want things to be consistent and since it's been embedded into human nature, no one can stop it.
Initiation rites reveal that humans are naturally cruel because we make people humiliate themselves, and selfish because we won't give up this embarrassing tradition.
Ever since the day I read "Initiation", I never really understood what hazing meant. This shows that schools need to try harder to educate students about hazing.
Alice
Period 7
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHazing and initiation rituals should be banned, and the story does a good job at illustrating how pointless it is to go through degrading and ardous tasks just to "fit in" People shouldnt have to prove anything to feel accepted, especially among there peers.
ReplyDeleteI think that hazing is a cruel punishment for those being initiated, usually underclassmen, and a good laugh for the upperclassmen initiating them. It is just straight out wrong for teens to find pleasure in other people's pain. The actions the "rookies" are being forced to do usually have absolutely no relation to the group/organization they are looking to be accepted into. It is almost a way of dehumanization only on a lower level. It is just as bad and also unnecessary. If hazing is happening in school systems the schools should take charge and either ban hazing or limit the group or organizations to things more reasonable and not as cruel. I sometimes watched on the news sorrority girls who were pledging and got seriously injured from being beat up and having trash cans thrown at them as a part of their initiation. That is crossing the line and just not of the human nature. Bottom line is hazing should be limited to a certain and reasonable and safe extent everywhere.
ReplyDeleteKrista Period 1
I believe that hazing, as a downright humiliating and degrading practice that risks emotional and/or physical harm, is an issue that should be taken seriously and made illegal everywhere.
ReplyDeleteThe article was correct in stating that hazing has been around for thousands of years and had, overtime, morphed into a "hard-wired aspect of human nature." Naturally, humans will try to fit in social groups in anyway possible, even going as far as injuring themselves emotionally and physically to make others accept them. I think it is a good decision to enforce some of the policies in educational programs to dissuade young adults from participating in such activities.
I felt that this was an interesting article, informative because of its views, opinions, and detailed examples of hazing and the tactics used to prevent such actions. It also relates to the short story we've read recently, Initiation by Sylvia Plath, because hazing was the center point of both the article and story. One difference I found between the article and Initiation was that while the article explained that hazing an activity encouraged because of personal ideas, the story was more so based on the idea of peer pressure. The article said that people would feel that they would be valued and that they would start to feel loyal toward the idea of being a part of the group. On the other hand, in Initiation, Millicent's views of the sorority revolved around her peers and peer pressure in general. Other than this, most points from the article applied to the story, both works describing hazing and initiation clearly, although from different viewpoints.
Haleema, Period 1
Ahhh, the never ending question about hazing; how do we stop it? honestly, I don't know. It is embedded deep into our psychology. Part of it is that fact that if someone gets hazed when they are younger, then they almost certainly haze others when they grow older. This marks a never ending cycle. And its not an easy cycle to break either. Its almost like kids haze younger ones to get back at the older generation who hazed them. The other reason why i don't have any suggestions on how to fix the problem is because I've never experienced hazing. Nobody has ever really "hazed" me in school and thats usually where it occurs. Is hazing really that big of a problem? I've never heard of anyone being seriously physically or mentally damaged by these acts and i wonder if we are a little bit too concerned. Kids will be kids; they make fun of each other and pick on the younger ones, that how its always been. Maybe hazing teaches us to stand up for ourselves, or another important lesson. It is impossible to know what would happen if we eliminated hazing; we might change for the better of for the worse.
ReplyDeleteI believe that hazing is a very degrading initiation that should not at all be practiced. Why is it that humans feel better about themselves when subjected to punishing and hurting others? What does hazing really do for a community? I think that it just produces negative effects and does not help whatsoever. When Dr. Mary Zahm said “if you want your people to be really loyal, you subject them to severe initiation.” I had to disagree with her. When treating people this terrible, it should not produce loyalty and faithfulness. I think that it would make the people angry and perhaps rebel. I really like how in the story "Initiation" Millicent realizes that she does not need to be in this sorority to feel special and have a higher power over others. Hazing should not be practiced anymore as it does not produce anything positive in society.
ReplyDeleteThe last post was mine, I had forgotten to type my name in the box. Sorry for any inconveniences.
ReplyDeletenext comment fails
ReplyDeletejust to let ya kno
ReplyDeletei believe that initiations should be banned, but as much as we try to prevent it from taking place, it will always happen. As much as we want to prevent teen from going through such things as initiations to be accepted it will take place, maybe not in the form of eggs and humiliation but more so in a way to prove yourself. Now in no way am i approving of things such as initiations, but i think it should be noted that it is a common thing in high school and it will happen if we like it or not. And if we do go through it we will only become stronger as Millicent has in the story, by the way she finds who she is. I beleive the real question here is would u rather be shelltered from being hurt then finding somethin about urself? now im not saying that initiation should take place just that it will happen, [ i mean come on thats high school for yea ] And when it does, thats when we will be testesd to see if if we will stand by what we beleive is right, or just keep sitting down while ur feel classmates tell you what is right?
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Thanks,
Daniel
Thanks for sharing the link, but unfortunately it seems to be down... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please reply to my post if you do!
ReplyDeleteI would appreciate if a staff member here at mbakerenglish.blogspot.com could post it.
Thanks,
Peter
bleep blop vloop vleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
ReplyDeletewow
ReplyDelete