There has been some technical issues with the blog this past week, so I will change the final date for all thoughts to be posted to Wednesday 5/18.
Final Post:
1. What are you personally taking from the novel? Where/ how do you find yourself in it?
2. Comment on at least one classmate's post.
3. What topic/ part of the novel would you like to further discuss in class?
Test
ReplyDeleteTEST 2
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm taking from the novel is a little something called confusion. From other discussions about the book, I've been told (by people who were told by ms luc) that everyone else dying from fire or water is supposed to symbolize their need for rebirth or a cleansing of some sort. Sula died from natural causes, which supposedly symbolises how she was the only one who didn't need a cleansing. Sula had sex with her best friend's husband. How on earth is she better than everyone else?
ReplyDeleteI don't think that that's really what I'm supposed to be commenting on right now, so I'll try another approach. I find myself mostly in Sula's shoes (unfortunately). Like her, I am strong and independent on my own (as opposed to Nel who is constantly wanting to be stronger and more independent like Sula)
I'd like to discuss how Sula came out as the "good guy." Not that there necessarily is a good guy in this book or life in general, but the good guy in the sense that I mentioned in my first little confused rant.
Katrice K
period 5
I feel like so much of this book is about being "reborn" or going back into the womb. I think it's really odd how Morrison conveys this to the reader. I feel like so many things that took place in this book are unlikey, which leads me to believe this book is supposed be like that mystical writitng style we touched up on. I mean how likely is it that a normal mother who cares for her kids and lives normally (minus a leg) feel the need to put her son "back in the womb" aka DEATH? Another thing why is Sula the source of evil in this book?
ReplyDeleteI feel like there's a lot of symbolism in this book... but it's very pointless. The death of Chicken Little, the fires, the drowning, Sula's death, if these are all supposed to be symbolic of rebirth what is this book's messages supposed to be to the reader? We should never leave our home town? We shouldn't have sex or we will die? In order to be reborn you must die? I'm honestly just very confused.
I feel like her purpose of this book was to be artistic, but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. OR maybe we're over analyzing it.
Can we please discuss the purpose of this book and how this really touches up on life as an african american in the 1920s-beyond? I mean it discusses it...but barely.
Olivia N. Period 6
I have taken a lot from this book. It uses a lot of symbolism to get the point across and I think that it helps me understand the book easier. I feel that this book has a lot of karma situations in it. I think it tells a lot about situations that involve the say, "What comes around, goes around." For example, Sula just stood and watched her mother burn to death. Eva jumps out the window to try to save her daughter. The same instance comes for Sula when she dies. She is dying painfully and no one except Nel comes and sees how she is doing.
ReplyDeleteI really don't see myself in this novel. I feel that each character has unique characteristics that I may have, but they are definitely not me. I feel that I try to brave like Sula when she cut off her finger to protect them and I feel that I am a good friend like Nel and always there for my friends. However, I have feelings and a conscious and I could never cheat with my best friend's husband or kill anyone. I feel that these characters are too extreme to relate to.
I can relate to Katrice on the fact that this book was very confusing. Some of the symbolism I didn't dig deep enough and get the full effect as to what it was trying to tell us. I also believe that Sula is not the good guy and that each character had its own pros and cons. I don't think that Sula is better than anyone in the book, but they are also not better than her.
I would like to discuss in class the ending of the book. i was really confused on why Nel was crying out Sula's name in the last pages of the book.
~Jessica C P6
I think I like this book because it didn't have a definite good guy-bad buy theme like most books. It was more about life with a lot of dramatization. I agree with Jess about having some singular characteristics that are the same as Sula/or Nell. More so Nell. But even given the chance to kill someone or sleep with my best friend's husband, I wouldn't do it. I think it's really cool how Morrison could tie all these people's lives together. This book was definitely hard to take in some parts, but I feel sometimes people need to take the messy parts before you can get to the nice parts.
ReplyDeleteSarah p6
From this novel, I am personally taking in the fact that friendship and loyalty are so key in life. The two girls had such a strong bond at first, and they were like best friends, two peas in a pod. But, when Sula decided to sleep with Nel's husband, Nel felt so betrayed. That is not okay, in any way, shape, or form. I realized how important it is to stay true to such a good friend because without a best friend, it's easy to lose your sanity. Sula hurt Nel so much, and it's never a good thing to be unloyal to such a good person/friend.
ReplyDeleteI think we can all relate to this theme of friendship and loyalty though, because it's such a major part of all of our lives. Without friends, there comes sadness, loneliness, and sometimes depression. So, I can find myself within this book because we all know what it's like to have a friend, but also to possibly be stabbed in the back by said person. A lot of this book describes what it's like not only to be an African American living through the tough times of the 1920s-1940s, but what it's like to be a person in general and all of the struggles we face.
I would like to discuss the significance of how maturity and "growing up" relate to this story, and how sometimes becoming more mature can tear people apart.
Allie B Period 6
Katrice, you make me laugh. I agree with you-I'
ReplyDeletem left confused as well. But also, one thing that I'm taking from the book is the theme of moving forward. To me, it seemed like the people in this book looked at life to be beautiful, even though it certaintly had its ups and downs for many of the characters. If a bad thing happened to them, they let the evilness "run it's course" and move on, with a positive mindset. They always told themselves that life would turn out okay, and I liked that. The very end of the book had a big impact on me when Nel was crying out for Sula, it was as if she realized that they were always destined to be together, through thick or thin.
Julianne M P6
Katrice,
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts EXACTLY.
This story just doesn't seem to have a moral. I'm not sure if it's supposed to have one at all, but if there is one, it's mighty confusing. I also wonder how Sula is supposed to be better than everyone else. She's better because she left the town, speaks in riddles, and sleeps with a bunch of men? I have no idea.
Olivia N. 6.
I am taking a different perspective on life from this book. The characters portrayed in the novel have a very different way of thinking, which really makes me question today's society. Though the views expressed in this novel are cynical, they are very deep. What is good? What is evil? The line between the two seems to blur more and more as we start to consider the questions. Yes, Sula was considered evil by the community, but somehow, she also made some improvements. It's almost as if she gave them something certain to believe in. Life is a lot easier when you're not questioning every detail, and I suppose Sula provided an easy place to focus hate. Her unconventional ways were easy ridicule, which is something that still comtinues in our society today. We make quick judgements, perhaps out of laziness, but what we really need to do is take a deeper look. This book has given me a way to do that.
ReplyDeletelooking back on the other comments, it seems like many people have a different take on the Good-bad/right-wrong theme. it would be interesting to discuss this further.
chelsea per6
Hmmm…as I look back on my short time with Sula, I find it hard to take anything from it for the reason that I spent most of my time trying to understand what was actually happening in the story’s time. So I take nothing other than the knowledge not to read or recommend it to anyone else. However, the one thing I was able to gather was just a greater background of events of the time period. I was aware of the different racism between blacks and whites, but never of blacks and blacks and the very different life styles they had carried with them for many decades. This allows me to show even more sympathy when I look back on all their struggles.
ReplyDeleteNext, if I found myself in the book, I would without a doubt be one of the characters that got killed, shot, burned, drowned or thrown into the retirement home. Simply because the low tolerance and strict views demonstrated or so not my type.
And one thing I would like to discuss more in class is the true meanings behind why we actually had the great opportunity to read this story of sex, survival, sadness and forgiveness.
Ryan H. Period 5
I think this was one of the hardest books I have during this course. I thought this book was hard because of the way it was written and the point it was trying to make. Morrison constantly changed the year and ages of the characters and I often found myself reading sections thinking people were younger than they really were (if that makes any sense!). I also just want to know why so many monstrous acts occurred in this book. I just don't understand why so many incidents such as the drowning scene or the burning scene occurred. I often tried to compare the book to events of that time and it just seemed like there was tension between the main characters, not so much between blacks and whites. The one thing that I did see was the evilness in Sula. She seemed heartless and emotionless. I felt confused after reading this book and hope to discuss its main significance.
ReplyDeleteThe main thing I want to know is why did so many bad things occur and what is the message the book is trying to give off?
Kelly L. P5
Ryan,
ReplyDeleteThat was harsh! But at the same time, I have to agree with you. The main reason I had trouble understanding the book was because of the way she wrote it and because of the storyline. I also noticed one of the same things you talked about which was the conflict between blacks and blacks. All you hear about in US history class is the conflict between blacks and whites, so it was interesting to think of other things that may have went on in that time period. Good points!
Kelly L. P5
I’m honestly not taking much from this novel. It seemed to be very repetive and it also seems like all we do is read the same type of books in school. On the otherhand, i am taking in the symbolism. Morrison used alot of symbolism in the book which made it a little more complicated to understand. However, I think this book did make me a more critical and better reader even though it was a pain. I also disliked how the symbolic details tied together and shared the same theme. In my opinion, a novel is more interesting when each symbol symbolizes a different theme. It gets annoying when almost all the symbols in the book are about rebirth, change, racism, and cleansing.
ReplyDeleteChelsea,
That is a very interesting perspective about the book. I wish Sula could have impacted me as much as it impacted you. Maybe I just didn’t understand it as well as you did.
We should talk more about the symbolism of the birthmark.
-Bob T period 6
I didn't really take anything from this book that I can identify. I mean I can relate to some of the tings in the book, Like Nel wanting to be stronger, and having a friend you don't need to talk to to understand, but it didn't teach me a lesson, or give me a new understanding of life. Like others have said, I'm confused about most of the book. What does the birthmark have to do with anything, why did so many people get killed, and what is the gray ball?
ReplyDeleteKelly,
I was also confused by the timeline, and what seemed like an overkill of horrible things happening. I think she felt it was important to carry out some message in all the deaths, but I can't figure out what it might be either. I think discussing it in class would help clarify things a lot.
Gretchen per 5
What I got out of the book is some of the rough traits of human nature. Everyone has flaws and imperfections and people are always looking for someone else to be their scapegoat to make his or herself feel better about their own lives. The book perceives almost every character as flawed or "evil" in a way at different points, and when a character f*s up, other characters and even myself as a reader, would change our perception of the character.
ReplyDeleteThe characters in the book seem to act selfishly. Why do you think they share this quality? Could this be a theme or say something (else) about human nature?
Bobby, I agree with how you feel about Sula. I wanted to comment on the symbolism in the book, because it was inlightening, to say the least. It was so over used on every single page basicly that it gave me insight on how to insert symbolism, as well as tons of new ideas that I would have never connected.
Jackie G5
Although I was confused during the majority of my time reading this novel, one thing that I did gain from it is how the lines between good and evil are blurred. In most books and movies, all characters are labeled either 'good' or 'evil.' I have never agreed with that; I often find myself sympathising more with the 'evil' characters. I liked how this novel showed that there are no truly good or evil characters. For example, Sula was labeled evil by the town, but it was not really true. She had a positive effect on the town, by uniting them against her. Also, she was a strong and independent woman who refused to conform to society. If I were in the novel, I would hope to be like her.
ReplyDeleteOlivia,
I agree completely with what you said, there was a lot of symbolism in the book, but I couldn't tell what the point of it was. I feel like many of the deaths in the book were meaningless.
In class, I would like to discuss if the book had a central message that the author was trying to send to the reader, and what it might be.
Jenny L. P6
What I'm taking from the book comes mainly from the scene where Sula and Nell make amends. At the end of her life, Sula says that she has no regrets and lived her life to the fullest, and has experienced everything there is to. Nell on the other hand thinks that her life is only full of regrets. From getting married to having children, she only did what people expected of her, and none of it was for herself. If Sula prided herself in anything, it was her independence, regardless of what that meant for her reputation. Even though she commited many evils in the eyes of the town, she didn't innher own... This showed me that happiness doesn't come from what society deems it should, but instead by following your own dreams. As juniors, we are sure to encounter obstacles on our way to college and the future, so this book was an insightful reminder to stay true to yourself and your values.
ReplyDeleteWhat I was confused about was that while Sula was outcasted by the people of the Bottom for her unorthodox ways, her mother behaved very similarly (promiscuously) but never got any trouble... What made the townspeople resent one over the other?
And Olivia, what you said about rebirth was very insightful! I had never thought about the book like that until you mentioned it.
Sreedevi 6
In this book, Sula takes a lot of heat from the community. Many of the people that live in The Bottom are angry and take their disgust out on her and talk about her. Even though she is a little bit "unstable," (she cut off her finger to scare a boy, watched Chicken Little die, etc.) I feel some compassion for her. She is looked down upon for sleeping with white men. However, who she sleeps with is her prerogative. As a class,
ReplyDeleteI want to further discuss Nel & Sula's friendship and the homosexual speculations that came about throughout the story.
Jackie, this book definitely suggests a lot about human nature. People are always looking to judge others in order to feel better about themselves. Although this is most commonly seen in high school, we will continue to see this as we grow up. I find that the more someone lacks self confidence, the more he/she talks about someone. I think that everyone in the book is flawed/imperfect because Toni Morrison wants to show that being perfect is impossible and just doesn't happen. Books and movies portray the "perfect person/life" too much, so I'm happy that she exposed the truths about humanity.
Alexis M
To me, I think that the message Morrison was trying to convey was about self-discovery and becoming your own person, and the reaction that others may have.Sula followed the beat of her own drum and stepped outside the "norm" and din't think twice about it. I don't agree with the majority of the things that she did but at least she was living to be herself no matter what until the day she died. She never got married and she never had kids she did her own thing when she wanted and how she wanted which wasn't typical for women during this time. And this way of life resulted in her being the town outcast. The people were not open-minded and because she didn't live in a way that they thought was appropriate they didn't want anything to do with her. I think that Morrison is trying to say that people need to find their own identity and be who they are and not what others want them to be. On page 143 when Nel asked Sula what she had to show for the kind of life that she had lived, Sula responded with one of my favorite quotes from this book, "'Show? To who? Girl, I got my mind. And what goes on in it. Which is to say, I got me.'"
ReplyDeleteI think that this message is important in American culture because America really supports the idea of finding yourself and pursuing any dream no matter what race or gender. The Black woman, for a long time has been the subordinate figure in history. This book is an encouragement that says that we don't have to confine ourselves to a certain role or perception and that we can live life the way we want to and not worry about the thoughts of others like the people of Medallion thought of Sula. This idea is not only for black women, but for anyone who is struggling to find his or her own identity.
Hey Olivia I agree with you on the symbolism. I think symbolism is a good literary technique because it enhances a book and makes it more profound and takes the reading to another level. However, in this book the symbolism is too much and a little unnecessary in some parts.
I would like to discuss Sula's death and why she said those last words to Nel about which one of them was the good one. I don't understand why she would say that to Nel for the last time. I would also like to discuss the ending.
Treasure p6
I think its kind of funny that you'd ask where we find ourselves in it, because that's something that comes up a couple times in the book, once (i can remember) in chicken little's funeral. She says, "...they heard one word or phrase or inflection that was for them the connection between the event and themselves." And she goes on to say that they felt bad for the kid, but they were really looking for something they could take for themselves in the funeral. But i found a lot of little things that i liked. A particular quotation i enjoyed was on page 40: "...for they had little patience with people who took themselves that seriously. Seriously enough to try to die." it kind of shone a new light on Shadracks and Tar Baby's and even the Dewey's personality.
ReplyDeleteI hope we can talk about the things that mattered and didn't matter. what i mean by this is that toni morrison fills her books with extra information, and i find it difficult to extract a few solid themes that occur throughout the WHOLE book. But at the same time i love her for that because the book becomes, like she said, something to feel rather than to swallow, because there's so much in it to keep you occupied and thinking, so many personal connections with so many different characters that it's almost as if there's no main characters. It's just like you're actually living there in the town.
- Tmasotta p5
I am mostly taking from this book that there are some messed up people in this world. I know this sounds harsh and mean but its really made me think. I don't think they are necessarily bad people, however, now I can see that what a person sees and experiences as a child AND as an adult shapes how they think and behave. Sula for instance, encounters various different attitudes towards sex and therefore she grows up to have a strange attitude towards intimacy. She later goes on the "steal" her friend's husband...and then leave him too. Additionally, towards the beginning of the book, readers are given a glimpse into the crazy mind of Shadrack, who has experienced a very traumatic time at war. Consequently, Shadrack has lost his mind. These are just two of the many examples in this book that illustrate how experiences can make a person into who they are. In my opinion, this book is full of messed up people who have had bad experiences which have made them this way. So, I'm taking away from this book that everything that happens to me or that I witness, will make and shape me.
ReplyDeleteHey Sreedavi! I totally agree with you! I think that even though Sula did many things that upset others, and even at times hurt people, she can honestly say she followed her heart and therefore does not regret not having done certain things.
I think we should discuss all the burning and possibly the drowning that goes on in this novel. For the most part it confused me because it seemed like such an extreme measure to take! This book is very harsh
Steph P5 :)
OMG KATRICE I SO WAS THINKING THE SAME EXACT THING. I am definitely getting a lot of confusion from this book, but I also see a lot of friendship conflicts and lessons as well. It's hard to decipher what is going on through a lot of the book unless it is read closely.
ReplyDeleteAllie, I like what ya posted girlyyyy :D
I think just discussing any of the parts that people found confusing in the novel will be beneficial to the class!
-Jess B. p.5 (:
I’m taking from this book the strength of relationships. In the first half of the book, Nel and Sula built a very strong friendship. They knew each other so well, stood up for another, and needed one another. When Sula slept with Nel’s husband everything changed. I was shocked and annoyed at how Sula could betray Nel and break years of friendship for a guy. This makes me wonder how much Sula really appreciated and cared for their friendship and Nel’s feelings. I find myself in Nel and Sula’s situation because this still happens a lot today. This shows me that sometimes my friendships and relationships with people can be easily broken no matter how strong it is.
ReplyDeleteSreedevi, I agree with you that like Sula we need to stay true to ourselves and do what we believe is right. If we just do what we’re told to do then we’ll never find what we really want to do like Nel.
I would like to discuss what colors symbolized in this book.
Ashley P6
From reading this novel I learned a valuable life lesson. It's much easier for people to use a scapegoat for their problems than to deal with them head on. The town used Sula as the scapegoat and allowed her to take blame for everything that seemed "evil." In my life, I like to face my problems directly. My family, on the other hand, usually picks on me or somebody else so that they don't have to deal with whatever problems they have. I connected with Sula because of this. Is there a reason why people always want to take the easy way out? It would be a much better place if we all learned to problem solve the right way instead of just blaming our problems on something else. It's interesting how when Sula died everyone decided to deal with their underlying problems. Is it necessary that a death needs to happen in order for people to see what the underlying issues are and step up to take control of their lives? I would like to further discuss Sula in class today.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ryan. I spent a lot of my time analyzing what was going on in the book because Morrison's writing style was very unique. It was hard to find meaning to this book because everything was so confusing!
Leah S
Period 5
A theme in this book that really stood out to me was the power of relationships, particularly Sula and Nel’s friendship. Although the girls seemed like they had an inseparable and loyal bond, Sula went behind Nel’s back and did the worst thing a friend could ever do. So I find myself asking, was their friendship really that strong in the first place? Maybe Morrison is trying to get the reader to understand that there is no such thing as a perfect friendship or relationship at all for that matter. Additionally, the author also showed a lot of defiance and how insecure people thrive off of others’ pain to feel good about themselves. Morrison said about the bad characteristics of humans and pointed out the evil in everyone.
ReplyDeleteKatrice, your post was awesome and I definitely agree with you. If all of this symbolism represents Sula not needing cleansing, then why was she portrayed so badly in the book? I am also extremely confused..
I would really like to talk about Sula’s death and the idea of dying by water, representing cleansing or rebirth.
Amanda M period 5
I take many things from this book. First off the use of symbolism in the book is very prominent. There are many examples that are used that cause you to be a very active reader. I feel that I took more from that then I did the actual book. It makes you really wonder what symbols some people miss In other books and will people ever know what the author intended.
ReplyDeleteAustin
Per 6
The man thing I take away from this book is a better understanding if what it means to be a black woman in America. It means having to make everything for yourself because you have no rights that give aid to men or white people. It means facing discrimination at every interaction with people who don't share your race or gender. With this book, I find myself on the outside looking in. Because of the time I live in, my race, and my gender, I find it hard ti relate to the troubles these characters face.
ReplyDeleteAustin, you're right, that is a problem. Sometimes, how much a reader enjoys a book depends on how well they can understand symbolism.
I'd like to discuss Shadrack's story more. He seems to represent many important themes but isn't mentioned much in the majority of the story.
Luke
Period 5
This book is a little confusing/wierd but there are many things to take from it. One thing that I take from this novel is the idwa of rebirth and cleansing. eva kills her son in order to cleanse his spirit so that he will not have to suffer. Hannah catches on fire which symolizes the cleansing of her soul. I also take from this book the themes of racism and sexism, and that not everyone's lives are as comfortable and easy as ours and that some of these struggles, some very exaggerated, are real for some people and we don't even realize it. I also get the ideas of migration and change from this novel which are important aspects of everyone's life.
ReplyDeleteKatrice I agree with you on the covolusion of this novel and how difficult it is to keep up and understand.
Jake Period 6
This book has left me a little confused.At the same time i do like the idea of "rebirth" which it seems a lot of people agree with. I also noticed to racism and sexism of the book. Different people are going to be treated differently throughout life for superficial reasons.
ReplyDeleteLike many people, I agree that the novel is very confusing and hard to keep up with at times.
Caitlyn L Period 5
this book was really confusing for me and fuzzy in soem areas but after looking back and rethinking about the book and all its events think that i am going to take from this book is that there is eveil in people and cetain events in life can refelect that. Also i think that this book kind of showed how life can be unfair and how ''karma'' kind of really works.
ReplyDeletei totally agree with caitlyn and the others this book is very confusing!
Lauren N period 5
After reading Sula, i still find myself quite confused. I think that most of the time I was trying to understand the point Morrison was trying to get across, that I was not able to enjoy the story as much as I would have hoped. This is did not leave me as much time to be able to analyze and look at all the symoblisim in the book because I was spending a lot of time breaking it down. Morrison connected to a lot of historical events though, such as tension between the blacks and whites which is what I found interesting to read about. And how she connected that into the story.
ReplyDeleteI hope to go over more of the symbloisim in class. Also i agree a lot with what Kelly L and Ryan had to say they were both very honest and at times harsh, but spoke the truth about the book.
Grace N
Period 6
I found Sula to be a good example of what NOT to do in life. As you get older and keep or lose friendships, you realize what is really important to you. However, just because friendships have died does not mean that you go and sleep with there husbands. So olivia, katrice, Julliane, i too agree. Not only was this book packed with symbolism, but it was also filled with a contorted and deep story line, which took everyone a while to breakdown. I would not reccomend this book for highschool, matybe a college philosophy class? I enjoyed it, but it definitly needs to be explained more to me.
ReplyDeleteroz t. period 5
From the book I'm taking the importance of knowing oneself and knowing others aswell. When Ajax left Sula, she found his license and suddenly felt wrong. She didn't even know his name, so how could she expect anything from him. But, even thought she didn't know others around her, she knew herself. Or she pretended to know herself. I don't think she knew why she slept around and I think she might have been a lesbian. But all in all, I found this book to be confusing and it continued to jump around and confuse you even more. But Morrison's writing style is still intriguing. I agree with Katrice, I don't understand how Sula thought of herself as good and as a peacemaker. At the end, when Nel and Sula are arguing, she says the people with love her! How can she have such a high opinion of herself. She didn't do anything important, she simply managed to get people mad at her.
ReplyDeleteI would like to talk about the giant grey fuzzball and the tunnel collapse in class. I don't understand why people joined Shadrack that day and why they died. And I still don't get the fuzzball!
Shama P6
Personally, from this novel, I'm taking that you live to experience life, not to conform to any society. I feel like I'm kind of like Nel in that she was raised as an obedient child and does what is expected of her. I feel more sympathetic to people like Sula that the Society calls a "disgrace".
ReplyDeleteShama,
To answer you r question of what important thing Sula did, I think that Sula was herself throughout the novel, unlike other people. Others only conformed. Unlike them, she didn't need a scapegoat to feel better about herself.
Anjita p.6